oldschool

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#42
No one knows the right number. I can confirm that I had several problems with Windows Updates on Windows 8.1 and prior versions, until I started keeping things simple. No problems from that moment, even with the last upgrade to ver. 1809. If the user has to install 3rd party applications (especially security related) then everything is possible on Windows 10 - that is a sad truth.

Edit.
My flawless experience with Windows 10 follows probably, from pretty much standard hardware, too.
By 'simple' you mean as little 3rd party software as possible, is that correct?
 

Raiden

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#43
No one knows the right number. I can confirm that I had several problems with Windows Updates on Windows 8.1 and prior versions, until I started keeping things simple. No problems from that moment, even with the last upgrade to ver. 1809. If the user has to install 3rd party applications (especially security related) then everything is possible on Windows 10 - that is a sad truth.

Edit.
My flawless experience with Windows 10 follows probably, from pretty much standard hardware, too.
I agree with this 100%.

Lets be honest Microsoft has created/and still continues to create their fair share of problems when it comes to Windows, but it really isn't always Microsoft's fault. 3rd party apps (including security programs) and users do (at times) create their own problems too. 3rd party's may not always follow the best route when it comes to how their programs works/integrates into Windows. They may decide to do their own thing (which differs from the API's that Microsoft has), which in turns, creates their own issues (security programs have been known to do this). Users (even average computer users) may start messing around in advanced settings (ie group policy, registry, etc...) because someone on the internet said so, then they start complaining that things aren't working anymore.

Hardware is the same, if they device maker makes crappy drivers, how is that Microsoft's fault. Look, I'm not trying to be all apologetic to Microsoft, as I've said they've created alot of problems for themselves over the years (and continue to do so), but there are times we should cut them some slack.

I'll be very honest, like Andy Ful, I've started keeping things simple and like Andy I too have had significantly less issues and things just work. I've come to rely more on the built in security in Windows 10, thanks to things like Configure Defender. I don't install 3rd party apps unless I need to (ie: use the build in disk cleaner in Windows) and I use standard hardware. I've upgraded to 1809 and have had not one single issue since. I'm not going to say that I will never have any issues, but so far its been a very good experience.



I think that the discussion about Microsoft would be simpler if everybody could accept the below:
  1. Windows Home is not suited for the home users. It has many features that a home user does not need and they are not secure, at all. Yet, some essential features are not available (like deferred updates).
  2. Microsoft does not care much about home users, but it started to care about Enterprise security. The forced updates for Windows Home are the reflection of it. The home users are like Guinea pigs for that. If you do not want to be a Guinea pig, then buy Windows Pro, at least.
  3. Only Enterprises can fight with Microsoft to change the way it develops Windows.
  4. There is no reason for Microsoft to care about home users. The corporations can love only the money.
  5. The home user, has the right to complain about Microsoft, but this is like complaining about something like Hurricane Katrina.
Many posts on this thread assumes that Microsoft should care about home users. I do not think that it is the right assumption. Microsoft is more like Katrina than like Romeo.:giggle:
I agree with this also! Microsoft makes the vast majority of it money from the business, enterprise, education, etc... sectors, so if they are going to do anything, or listen to anyone, it will be for/from them, not home users.
 

oldschool

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#44
I agree with this 100%.

Lets be honest Microsoft has created/and still continues to create their fair share of problems when it comes to Windows, but it really isn't always Microsoft's fault. 3rd party apps (including security programs) and users do (at times) create their own problems too. 3rd party's may not always follow the best route when it comes to how their programs works/integrates into Windows. They may decide to do their own thing (which differs from the API's that Microsoft has), which in turns, creates their own issues (security programs have been known to do this). Users (even average computer users) may start messing around in advanced settings (ie group policy, registry, etc...) because someone on the internet said so, then they start complaining that things aren't working anymore.

Hardware is the same, if they device maker makes crappy drivers, how is that Microsoft's fault. Look, I'm not trying to be all apologetic to Microsoft, as I've said they've created alot of problems for themselves over the years (and continue to do so), but there are times we should cut them some slack.

I'll be very honest, like Andy Ful, I've started keeping things simple and like Andy I too have had significantly less issues and things just work. I've come to rely more on the built in security in Windows 10, thanks to things like Configure Defender. I don't install 3rd party apps unless I need to (ie: use the build in disk cleaner in Windows) and I use standard hardware. I've upgraded to 1809 and have had not one single issue since. I'm not going to say that I will never have any issues, but so far its been a very good experience.





I agree with this also! Microsoft makes the vast majority of it money from the business, enterprise, education, etc... sectors, so if they are going to do anything, or listen to anyone, it will be for/from them, not home users.
Halleluiah! Thank you. (y)
 
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Andy Ful

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#46
The way
By 'simple' you mean as little 3rd party software as possible, is that correct?
Yes, with Windows 10, I totally changed the way of installing applications and managing the system. After a few months of using Windows 10, I finally understood that it evolves too quickly to preserve the flawless compatibility with 3rd party applications, especially security related. It is not the fault of developers, and I do not think that Microsoft is able to accomplish the full backward compatibility.
I chose WD as the real-time AV instead Comodo Firewall or Avast. Installed Microsoft Word Mobile, Excel Mobile and PowerPoint Mobile, and Adobe Reader Touch (Universal Applications) as document viewers.
I use Edge and do not use 3rd party web browsers.
I still keep a few desktop applications like STDU Viewer and SoftMaker Office.
I do not use 3rd party uninstallers, registry cleaners, disk utilities, etc. There are good Windows 10 built-in tools for that.
I use Shadow Defender and many portable desktop applications, so the system is not bloated by application leftovers. I still install/test many applications - without Shadow Defender my system would be a total mess.

The above + pretty standard hardware = better compatibility with Windows 10.
I also understand that such a setup would be unacceptable to many MT users, but it is acceptable (except Shadow Defender) to many inexperienced users, who do not install many applications and use Windows 10 for basic tasks.
Actually, something like Chromebook would be also a better solution for many users (and more secure for sure).
 
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Andy Ful

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#48
I should probably apologize many MT readers, If they understood from my posts, that using 3rd party security on Windows 10 is a bad idea. MT members cannot be called as inexperienced, and they should try to choose the security that suits to their habits and needs. Yet, they should remember that this will not be an easy way on Windows 10.
Shortly, a reasonable user can drink the alcohol as he likes, even when drinking a glass of red wine is probably more healthy.
 
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Eddie Morra

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#49
Currently I'm more concerned about this.
Windows Feedback Hub sucks IMO.

They could have just used an online platform called user-voice which they already use for several of their other services. Much faster, simpler, and doesn't make signing into a Microsoft account mandatory to use it. Plus, you'd have one less pre-installed application.
 

Raiden

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#50
Hello, I never had any problems with Windows Updates, and I have a lot third party security software, so GO!! Microsoft.:love:
This is very true. I too have used many 3rd party programs (including security programs) in the past and haven't had too many issues either. I've just come to realize that I don't need rely on 3rd party apps like I use to in the past to have a very good experience and still be very secure, but again this is just me and what works for me :)

I do want to apologize to everyone as I don't want to come across as some righteous, thou shall not use 3rd party apps type of person. I think that the members here know their way around Windows and have a lot of experience. I think people in general should be free to use what ever programs they so choose (3rd party or not). I just take issue when people blame Microsoft for every single problem, when in reality it may no be because of them.

As I said in my previous post, Microsoft is FAR from innocent when it comes to problems in Windows, but we just need to be mindful that sometimes it's not as simple as saying, well its Windows, so therefore its Microsoft's fault. The recent issue with the 1809 update is a good example. This issue is totally Microsoft's fault for not fixing the issue before pushing out the update, but IMHO its the user's fault for not having proper backups. This is the type of thing that can happen to anyone, heck how many times have you heard stories of people losing their data because their HDD/SDD died and they didn't have any backups? They way I look it is that no matter what OS, HDD, brand of computer, etc... one chooses to use, it doesn't exempt them from following basic computer/security habits 101. Just because one chooses to use Linux, Mac OS or Chrome OS over Windows, doesn't mean they are free to make the assumption that because its not Windows they won't have any issues.
 
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Andytay70

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#51
Some people really like the rough love... like being used as guinea pig,s, being mentally, emotionally abused. Anyway, Microsoft is a really good abuser.

Foghorn Leghorn spanked Dawg and makes the lights of Christmas
What can i say, people know from past history that as soon as MS cowboys release a version everyone installs it then complains about bugs and issues. what happened to " wait and see" and then install it once the issues have been ironed out.
I have only just moved to 1803! maybe this time next year i'll install the new version?
 

Eddie Morra

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#52
everyone installs it then complains about bugs
And then people are like "All good, no problems on the new version. It is bug-free!" when they only installed it 10 minutes ago and haven't actually done anything apart from run their browser.

Rule number 1... never ever trust a positive review on a Windows update on a security forum for the first 2 weeks minimum.
 

Andy Ful

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#53
What can i say, people know from past history that as soon as MS cowboys release a version everyone installs it then complains about bugs and issues. what happened to " wait and see" and then install it once the issues have been ironed out.
I have only just moved to 1803! maybe this time next year i'll install the new version?
On Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise editions, the updates can be deferred and that is usually done in Enterprises to avoid problems. If you have Windows Home and use Ethernet connection, then you cannot defer updates. They are applied when MS wants. It looks like people were forced to be the Guinea pigs to test the updates. Next, the updates are refined, and finally they are applied in Enterprises.
This is similar to using a shareware with ads - if you do not like ads, then buy the Pro version.
 
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Eddie Morra

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#55
Apple seems to have better OS updates then Microsoft.
Apple have messed up badly in the past (e.g. in terms of security - like hard-coded password bypasses) but they've improved a lot. Usually, there is minimal hassle compared to Windows when it comes to updates, in my opinion.

One thing I've never ever heard is, "An Apple update for my Mac has broken it!".

I think the Q&A testing in Apple has proven to be a lot more effective. They have millions of customers and it seems they rarely screw up on a level high enough to cause breakages? At-least I do not hear of such events. Either such breakage issues on Apple products because of Apple aren't prevalent enough for the media to burst a bubble about it, or it just rarely happens.

Microsoft aside, Apple have their own issues, like trying to sue people over censorship control (e.g. hide news stories from the media - like the one about the malicious chips from China) and having repair equipment seized from people by the U.S government because some people wanted to offer others a chance to get Apple product repairs when Apple refused to do so (such events are recent).
 

shmu26

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#57
I think we have just grown spoiled.
Windows is much stabler and more secure than it used to be.
I remember when they delivered my box with Windows 95 and Office 97 pre-installed.
Anyways there was no broadband internet, and people didn't update anyways, because they were using all PXXXXed software. Those were the days.
Computer use is much stabler now.
 

Andy Ful

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#58
I think we have just grown spoiled.
Windows is much stabler and more secure than it used to be.
I remember when they delivered my box with Windows 95 and Office 97 pre-installed.
Anyways there was no broadband internet, and people didn't update anyways, because they were using all PXXXXed software. Those were the days.
Computer use is much stabler now.
It would be right to say that Microsoft made an important contribution to OS development, for ordinary people. It can be probably more important than ignoring people security, when using Windows.
 

shmu26

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#59
But don't ordinary people's PCs get much infected less now than in the year 2000?
I remember lots of viruses, it was almost inevitable to get infected. It's true that the viruses were mostly just practical jokes, or they made your computer slow down to a crawl.
Nowadays, people don't get constantly infected unless they are downloading every crack they can find.
 
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shmu26

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#60
Could MS have done much more to improve PC security? Of course. But on the other hand, they are just giving the people what they are asking for. Ordinary people are not clamoring for more security features. They are clamoring for conveniences and sleek GUI and free fun.