Cylance Smart Antivirus

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ForgottenSeer 72227

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and whoes deaf ears are you talking about? I am perfectly content with my setup. PLUS my router settings.

Sorry I wasn't referring to you or trying to single anyone out specifically. I was just speaking in general terms. Don't get me wrong, I really love this form and the great people that participate. I love learning and hearing the many stories and experiences from people all over the world. I am not trying to be Mr elitist or anything, but just trying to bring forth an issue I have noticed since joining, and I know I am not alone in this. Overall I can tell that the vast majority of people here get along and are very passionate about security. There just seems to be an over all sense of paranoia that is so high at the moment that I think its hard to differentiate between whats reasonable and whats overkill.

I have no doubt that everyone wants to help, but while there are very good intentions to help new comers, sometimes I think wrong approach is taken. The security configuration section is a good example of this. Many times someone new will post their config and they get tons of posts telling them to add a bunch of stuff that they may not really need. There are lots of people that offer great advice, but I think we should really focus on glaring issues with their setups (ie: no backup solution, UAC turned off, etc..) than asking them to add a bunch of software/extensions. I'm of the view that if the poster wants to add anything new to their setup, we should let them ask about it first. There are tons of great threads here already that cover all of the different software/extensions out there. One very important thing I think we also need to remember is that while we may focus on new forum members, there are even more people that read this forum who are not members. These very same people are looking for advice and will more than likely follow these suggestions. We want people to be safe while online, but at the same time we don't want them to feel so paranoid that the enjoyment factor is gone.
 

AtlBo

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I know once you reach a certain level, it becomes hard to remember what it is like to be an average user. If you did not use your home system for what you did, im sure your outlook would be different.

Do you think average users should be content with present security practices then? There is still more that can be done for everyday, and this particular reasoning is inappropriate it seems to me:

Home users are not targeted like those same enterprise clients though, something that needs addressed for average home users here.

Almost every person I know uses their computer or device for some important purpose that they wouldn't want revealed to unscrupulous individuals. I know many who work directly from home for a corporation or manage a home based business or from home a business that they own. Anyone can have their identity stolen, also.

I don't believe the baseline for the average user has been established , and I have really enjoyed the insights on Cylance and also on net protection. Keep in mind, these technologies could be available in a tight clean bundle in every router 5 or 7 years from now for everyday PC owner/operators (actually Cylance and for example the Glyphon technology seem to me already very reachable from this angle). Should common individuals turn down Layer 7 protection 3 or 4 or 5 years from now because a forum years ago said it's more than they need? Really, we need to be celebrating with each new breakthrough and advancement imo.

BTW, my sister ALMOST had $125,000 stolen from her via a hack when she was buying a house. A credit reporting service alerted her, or she would have lost the money. This can happen to anyone. Also, just for the record, computing is not about the average user for me->it's about the rest of us who need layers of security stepping up to make sure everyday get REAL baseline security. So, anyway, that's why I feel that it's inappropriate to insinuate (intentionally or otherwise) that home users are already getting what they require...I disagree about that. Way better than 5 or 7 years ago yes, but not there yet...

Thx @ForgottenSeer 58943. You are feeding the needy as usual->not an attempt at humor srsly :)...(y) (I mean me o/c)
 
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AtlBo

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There are lots of people that offer great advice, but I think we should really focus on glaring issues with their setups (ie: no backup solution, UAC turned off, etc..) than asking them to add a bunch of software/extensions.

Thx for this. Good that this thinking is here at MTs in every sense. There are many simple things users seeking input or advice can do immediately without any risk of regret...
 

artek

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Unfortunately this is basically 100% incorrect, with all due respect. Your ISP supplied router doesn't 'filter' anything. It's a simple NAT router with L3 inspection (network), and at best, a crappy SPI firewall that is totally obsolete. Gryphon is a Layer 7 home router in comparison, by the way. Also, major ISP routers are quite vulnerable, not properly updated, and almost always left on default credentials with WAN Admin access over port 80.

UN: cusadmin PW: highspeed That'll get you into almost every Comcast provided router in the country. The list of CV's on major ISP routers is quite extensive. I remember the fun one CVE-2018-10990 where sessions never expired and anyone could hop on your session into your router and change every setting they want, including binding you to a hijacked DNS. Recently during Hope X Hacker Conference experts in the field said most home routers are 'profoundly' insecure and recommended that most be simply thrown into the trash.

I actually don't think Cylance by itself will offer sufficient security when used alone on Joe User's crappy home network with a crappy $12 router.. Cylance is good. But it misses too many vectors when used without adjunct technologies that address other attack vectors. The reason why Cylance doesn't disappoint in the enterprise world is because it's sitting behind some pretty nice UTM/NGFW hardware. But under the right conditions, and with a few simple changes, a home user would be amazingly protected with it. (those caveats I keep mentioning)

Go look at the posted vulnerability list for any piece of software or hardware and tell me you can’t find something that doesn’t leave you scratching your head. If Comcast doesn’t deploy their equipment properly and securely, that doesn’t mean that a home user need anything more, it means that comcast needs to fix their security practices.

Look you have a point, most of the time Linksys etc., are not exactly stellar at securing their line of home routers. But why do you think the Gryphon router is going to be any better for a home user? Didn’t the Gryphon router launch with a kickstarter campaign? What happens when that company goes under after home users don't buy that and opt to go with their ISP provided router instead? When it stops getting firmware updates that fix vulnerabilities? The thing is $200, do you really think it's going to sell enough to stay afloat when it's competing with other consumer home routers with more familiar names? You’re not going to fix this problem with a new type of device, that’s beyond a home users’ ability to setup and maintain. Most of my older relatives have trouble installing a new web browser, they’re not going to be able to make heads or tails of that thing.

All I run is a bare bones consumer home router, and I don’t even run any third-party anti-virus software. I’ve haven’t even seen a piece of malware in ten years. I have no idea who you think is out there targeting soccer moms and the carpenter down the street. If they keep their software and hardware up-to-date and they don’t run everything they come across they’ll be just fine.
 
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illumination

Thread author
Do you think average users should be content with present security practices then? There is still more that can be done for everyday, and this particular reasoning is inappropriate it seems to me:



Almost every person I know uses their computer or device for some important purpose that they wouldn't want revealed to unscrupulous individuals. I know many who work directly from home for a corporation or manage a home based business or from home a business that they own. Anyone can have their identity stolen, also.

I don't believe the baseline for the average user has been established , and I have really enjoyed the insights on Cylance and also on net protection. Keep in mind, these technologies could be available in a tight clean bundle in every router 5 or 7 years from now for everyday PC owner/operators (actually Cylance and for example the Glyphon technology seem to me already very reachable from this angle). Should common individuals turn down Layer 7 protection 3 or 4 or 5 years from now because a forum years ago said it's more than they need? Really, we need to be celebrating with each new breakthrough and advancement imo.

BTW, my sister ALMOST had $125,000 stolen from her via a hack when she was buying a house. A credit reporting service alerted her, or she would have lost the money. This can happen to anyone. Also, just for the record, computing is not about the average user for me->it's about the rest of us who need layers of security stepping up to make sure everyday get REAL baseline security. So, anyway, that's why I feel that it's inappropriate to insinuate (intentionally or otherwise) that home users are already getting what they require...I disagree about that. Way better than 5 or 7 years ago yes, but not there yet...

Thx @ForgottenSeer 58943. You are feeding the needy as usual->not an attempt at humor srsly :)...(y) (I mean me o/c)
Appreciate the feedback, but if you have read my recommendations i specifically warn users to be diligent with what they divulge to 3rd party sources, as once it is in their hands, anything can happen to it, and no amount of security on the end users system will prevent this. Some of the users i spoke of in my area also run home businesses, do all their banking and paying of bills online, and these users have been taught safe habits such as these im about to leave in a spoiler, they have been fine for a few years now.

The base and end all of security is knowledge.

-Knowledge: This should be the base of any good security configuration. Learning safer habits and utilizing your security as a "just in case" instead of trying to use many layers of applications to make up for lack of understanding.

-This should include the following aspects.

1. Be leery of clicking links especially in email or instant messages. Verify URL's, not only by manually looking at them, but also running them through URL scanners such as the one at Virus Total. If you are unsure still, the best course of action is to not click that link.

Bookmark important sites: A misspelled address could take you to a false site that mirrors the site you intended to go to. A book marked address will take you to the same site every time.

Passwords: In general you would be better off utilizing one of the many password managers, but as it often sometimes is, most average users do not, or can not, so keep this little bit of information in mind if this is the case.

Do not use the same password for all sites, if you are limited on what you can remember then please make sure to be careful and not use the same password for any of the sites you frequent as the ones you use for your email. If the site is to be breached, you would not want them to gain access to your email via same used passwords. Passwords should be strong, hard to guess or crack, password managers all have generators built in for building and storing strong passwords.

2. Updates/Patches:

Run maintenance on your system as you would a vehicle, consider it preventive maintenance. Always make sure to keep your system and applications patched. These patches and updates are for a good reason, they are plugging holes in your surface of attack. While i recommend keeping patched always, i would also state to do your research on certain updates for the OS/drivers/applications before applying, make sure there is not a fresh set of new bugs to contend with that are worse then what they are patching, this happens more often then most realize.

If you limit the amount of 3rd party applications on your system, you also limit the time doing maintenance, you limit the amount of freshly introduced bugs, and you keep your surface of attack smaller, and in the end, your machine will thank you for it by running better and being more enjoyable.

3. Back ups:

This is more important then security. No security out there can achieve 100% protection, if they could, they would already have a monopoly on the market and would have run all others out of business. Prepare for the worst, strive for the best.

Personal items are of the utmost important files on your system, once lost, they can not be replaced. Backing up externally or into the cloud "both recommended by me", so as to ensure you always have a copy of it obtainable. If something were to happen, you lose nothing this way, and can start freshly if needed.

Using images to create snapshots of your system works well for those who neither have the knowledge or time to repair/wipe a system. Windows has a built in option, although there are 3rd party options. It is a good idea also to keep on hand Microsofts media creation tool burnt to a flash drive, updated when needed. With this you can run repairs or wipe the system and build it from a clean install, which after a nasty infection, is always recommended to ensure you have eradicated the issue.

4. Security:

It has always been recommended for users to try applications for themselves. These products all have trials "most of them anyway", for this very reason. Test drive them for a couple weeks, does it fit your uses, is it running ok on your system and resources, are you comfortable with the settings and layout to get around and adjust it as necessary.

Learning the product is recommended here. Most throw them on with default settings and never venture in to settings to realize there is much more then meets the eye. Google search is handy for learning these, as are the manuals most of the products companies produce and are freely accessible. Watching youtube videos of a product will not help you decide what is best for you. You need to experience the product and settings to fully grasp it.

Understand you are a home user, and you are not targeted like corporations and businesses. The chances of you seeing sophisticated attacks and malware on that level are quite slim. There is no need for paranoia when you cover your basics, keep everything patched, backed up, use caution/safe habits when surfing.

Be careful what you divulge to websites "personal information", these as seen in the news are not as secure as they should be, once your information is in someone else's hands, anything can happen to it.

Know that the more security you pile on your system, the chances of incompatibilities/bugs arise and issues may occur. Finding a proper balance of application to knowledge ratio is fully recommended.


~illumination
 
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ForgottenSeer 58943

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Then let's just throw away all security discussion.. Comodo with CS settings. Appguard. All of it is pointless overkill. Since 'classic' users are probably totally protected with any old router and Windows Defender. Why bother with any third party products anymore? Just roll with the $19 Tenda and WD, you good. Soccer moms good.

Let's just move on to discussing Fortnite and Manbuns.
 
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509322

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Do you think average users should be content with present security practices then? There is still more that can be done for everyday, and this particular reasoning is inappropriate it seems to me:



Almost every person I know uses their computer or device for some important purpose that they wouldn't want revealed to unscrupulous individuals. I know many who work directly from home for a corporation or manage a home based business or from home a business that they own. Anyone can have their identity stolen, also.

I don't believe the baseline for the average user has been established , and I have really enjoyed the insights on Cylance and also on net protection. Keep in mind, these technologies could be available in a tight clean bundle in every router 5 or 7 years from now for everyday PC owner/operators (actually Cylance and for example the Glyphon technology seem to me already very reachable from this angle). Should common individuals turn down Layer 7 protection 3 or 4 or 5 years from now because a forum years ago said it's more than they need? Really, we need to be celebrating with each new breakthrough and advancement imo.

BTW, my sister ALMOST had $125,000 stolen from her via a hack when she was buying a house. A credit reporting service alerted her, or she would have lost the money. This can happen to anyone. Also, just for the record, computing is not about the average user for me->it's about the rest of us who need layers of security stepping up to make sure everyday get REAL baseline security. So, anyway, that's why I feel that it's inappropriate to insinuate (intentionally or otherwise) that home users are already getting what they require...I disagree about that. Way better than 5 or 7 years ago yes, but not there yet...

Thx @ForgottenSeer 58943. You are feeding the needy as usual->not an attempt at humor srsly :)...(y) (I mean me o/c)

A credit reporting service would not report a hack of your sister's bank account. Credit reporting agencies do not monitor bank accounts; the bank does. Someone using your sisters infos to fraudulently establish a line of credit isn't theft of actual cash money from your sister. So your sister would not have lost a dime.
 
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509322

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Then let's just throw away all security discussion.. Comodo with CS settings. Appguard. All of it is pointless overkill. Since 'classic' users are probably totally protected with any old router and Windows Defender. Why bother with any third party products anymore? Just roll with the $19 Tenda and WD, you good. Soccer moms good.

Let's just move on to discussing Fortnite and Manbuns.

I think what @illumination is saying is that what many people do on the forums is overkill.

A typical setup is ESET, SpyShelter, HitmanPro Alert, AppGuard, Rollback RX, NVT ERP, NVT OSA, Excubits MemProtect, Excubits Bouncer, Macrium Reflect, VPN, and 12 browser extensions. And the example I just gave doesn't even come close to exaggeration.

That kind of configuration says a lot about the person's state of mind, their fears, and where they are at in terms of IT security.

When MT used to allow people to show their security configs in their signatures, there were many people with paragraphs for their security configs.
 
I

illumination

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I think what @illumination is saying is that what many people do on the forums is overkill.

A typical setup is ESET, SpyShelter, HitmanPro Alert, AppGuard, Rollback RX, NVT ERP, NVT OSA, Excubits MemProtect, Excubits Bouncer, Macrium Reflect, VPN, and 12 browser extensions. And the example I just gave doesn't even come close to exaggeration.

That kind of configuration says a lot about the person's state of mind, their fears, and where they are at in terms of IT security.

When MT used to allow people to show their security configs in their signatures, there were many people with paragraphs for their security configs.
Not only this, but average users coming in trying to replicate that configuration are going to find something much worse then malware...
 
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ForgottenSeer 72227

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I think what @illumination is saying is that what many people do on the forums is overkill.

A typical setup is ESET, SpyShelter, HitmanPro Alert, AppGuard, Rollback RX, NVT ERP, NVT OSA, Excubits MemProtect, Excubits Bouncer, Macrium Reflect, VPN, and 12 browser extensions. And the example I just gave doesn't come close to exaggeration.

That kind of configuration says a lot about the person's state of mind and their fears.

This is exactly the point we're trying to get across!
 

AtlBo

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Some of the users i spoke of in my area also run home businesses, do all their banking and paying of bills online, and these users have been taught safe habits such as these im about to leave in a spoiler, they have been fine for a few years now.

The base and end all of security is knowledge.

Those are helpful and good advice, but when security steps forward (which it will) and if these technologies are in every router, where will the claim that the technology is not needed be? It will have been for nothing, and the technology will be present for a reason. I am interested in what @ForgottenSeer 58943 is saying about Cylance, and every concept that challenges the status quo gets my attention.

Imo, I think the "average joe" and "typical user" banter is meaniningless. I feel that the focus of discussions over the present and future of security should be placed instead on a standard for baseline protection that anyone can simply master and rely upon. New concepts are getting me going these days, that's for sure. Cylance + Glyphon is something I will continue to monitor for the short term. If it's as good as @ForgottenSeer 58943 says, noone should do business on a computer without the technology while it's available at those prices. Heimdal seems to me to be heading toward breaking ground in the big picture too...

Safe practices considered, and yes they are very important, I don't think a single novice user will read @ForgottenSeer 58943's posts here or in his Glyphon thread and not be encouraged...if anything. Why should we or novice users worry that the standard for baseline might be raising for home users? Anyway, when the baseline matches the knowledge level required of users with regard to safe practices, I will be satisfied. For the present, I don't think security solutions for home users (any of them) live up fully to what the baseline should be. We do have a difference of opinion on that I think. That's OK, and that's what boards are for...
 
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ForgottenSeer 72227

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Not only this, but average users coming in trying to replicate that configuration are going to find something much worse then malware...

Not to mention if they don't understand what some of this software is doing (ie syshardener) to their systems and or what the prompts mean.
 
5

509322

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Those are helpful and good advice, but when security steps forward (which it will) and if these technologies are in every router, where will the claim that the technology is not needed be? It will have been for nothing, and the technology will be present for a reason. I am interested in what @ForgottenSeer 58943 is saying about Cylance, and every concept that challenges the status quo gets my attention.

Imo, I think the "average joe" and "typical user" banter is meaniningless. I feel that the focus of discussions over the present and future of security should be placed instead on a standard for baseline protection that anyone can simply master and rely upon. New concepts are getting me going these days, that's for sure. Cylance + Glyphon is something I will continue to monitor for the short term. If it's as good as @ForgottenSeer 58943 says, noone should do business on a computer without the technology while it's available at those prices. Heimdal seems to me to be heading toward breaking ground in the big picture too...

Safe practices considered, and yes they are very important, I don't think a single novice user will read @ForgottenSeer 58943's posts here or in his Glyphon thread and not be encouraged...if anything. Why should we or novice users worry that the standard for baseline might be raising for home users? Anyway, when the baseline matches the knowledge level required of users with regard to safe practices, I will be satisfied. For the present, I don't think security solutions for home users (any of them) live up fully to what the baseline should be. We do have a difference of opinion on that I think. That's OK, and that's what boards are for...

You're not going to find anything better than what is on the market right now. There isn't going to be some phenomenal improvement with Ai. The big fallacy of Cylance is that Ai is something new. It isn't. It has been around for years. They just use slick marketing and tricks in their product to sucker gullible people into thinking it is the next best thing to money.

If you want secure, use Chromebook. Use an adblocker. Put a VPN on it.
 
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AtlBo

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A credit reporting service would not report a hack of your sister's bank account. Credit reporting agencies do not monitor bank accounts; the bank does. Someone using your sisters infos to fraudulently establish a line of credit isn't theft of actual cash money from your sister. So your sister would not have lost a dime.

That's not what I was told by her. This was several years ago...maybe 5 or 6, and she was alerted by a credit reporting service of some kind...also told she would have lost the money...
 

AtlBo

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You're not going to find anything better than what is on the market right now. There isn't going to be some phenomenal improvement with Ai. The big fallacy of Cylance is that Ai is something new. It isn't. It has been around for years. They just use slick marketing and tricks in their product to sucker gullible people into thinking it is the next best thing to money.

I'm just interested in the mechanical theory in the "Ai". What it's called or who loves it doesn't mean anything to me. So much of what everyone goes for comes across to me as a simple "catch phrase" around a slightly more sophisticated way of doing the same thing that I don't pay any attention to what's being said for the most part.

It's all about knowing Windows and its vulnerabilities for me, but sigless is interesting, and NVT OSA shows us that purely mechanical, "Ai" or not as with OSA, can significantly strengthen the security on a PC. So I will watch and listen and wait for Cylance to reveal more. Definitely not buying for now...not even close. However, @ForgottenSeer 58943 is testing Cylance and Heimdal and I think the results are interesting, and we could at least show a little gratitude ya know. Test results are very helpful and this case we are getting a positive, albeit measured, report from someone who is aware of the intricacies of Windows and securing such...
 

vtqhtr413

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Thank you @AtlBo , I keep trying to respond smartly but you keep saying it better than I can. I appreciate ForgottenSeer 58943's enthusiasm no matter the topic, it doe's rub off and I have your same level of interest in these promising apps, this is a security forum and must have attractive subject matter for all. Preach safe practices for sure but don't stifle the genuine exchange of knowledge that I and I'm sure others here look forward to :emoji_v:
 
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