Advice Request What is your opinion about Microsoft Windows Defender (Windows 10)?

[ForgottenSeer 86663]

Does this mean that anybody who is really paranoid doesn’t need to be? Their emotions just tell them they do? So they don’t need that third party software?

Paranoia is emotion-based and completely irrational. Computer security decisions are largely made based upon emotions, and not reality. That is why most security software marketing targets peoples' fear of the unknown.

To answer your questions, really paranoid people are not behaving rationally. They do not need to be paranoid. They are being ruled by their emotions instead of reason.

Reason looks at reality and data. The real world data proves that systems are not being infected left and right. This is despite the never ending daily news reports of the next latest greatest most dangerous malware and data breach. The reason your system probably has never been infected is because probabilities are in your greatly in favor of you not getting a computer infection.

People want to feel safe. They do that by doing stuff that they think gives them control. That is not security. It is a whoopee blanket.

 

[Andy Ful]

The only reason to use WD on W10 is because:
1. it is free; and
2. it provides for the least amount of troubles for the typical Windows user

Anyone who is really paranoid about security would not use WD. Test after test has proven it is going to fail against novel sophisticated threats. OK, AV Test, VB Bulletin, AV Comparatives and whatever other AV lab tests y'all quote here are not any kind of meaningful endorsement of WD protection. Those are just commonly accepted base lines.

Microsoft is not third party friendly. Heck it isn't even Windows user friendly. If it was then y'all would not need Hard Configurator. Actually, you don't really need Hard Configurator. It is just your emotions telling you that you do.

I would agree with your post under some conditions.

1. The "AV Test, VB Bulletin, AV Comparatives and whatever other AV lab tests" can give the similarly approximate results for all AVs.
2. The novel sophisticated threads are dangerous for all AVs and there are no accepted tests on this topic. WD (free) cannot stop most of such threats by design - it would require the WD ATP + AppLocker + Application Control, etc. Some of the advanced features included in WD ATP can be activated by PowerShell (or ConfigureDefender). Anyway, these threats are not statistically important for home users.
3. Anyone who is really paranoid about security will not use any of the free AVs alone.
4. WD is the most friendly AV for average users on Windows 8+, because they do not need to install it and tweak it. Furthermore, WD is most compatible with Windows and installed software.
5. Most MT readers do not need H_C, but probably need some of its features, like restricting/blocking scripts, shortcuts, and Windows remote features. All of this can be covered by caution, safe habits, and some knowledge (without using H_C and similar hardening applications). The H_C was created (in the first place) for average users who can get occasional help from an advanced user (family administrator).

 

[Andy Ful]

Paranoia is emotion-based and completely irrational. Computer security decisions are largely made based upon emotions, and not reality. That is why most security software marketing targets peoples' fear of the unknown.

To answer your questions, really paranoid people are not behaving rationally. They do not need to be paranoid. They are being ruled by their emotions instead of reason.

Reason looks at reality and data. The real world data proves that systems are not being infected left and right. This is despite the never ending daily news reports of the next latest greatest most dangerous malware and data breach. The reason your system probably has never been infected is because probabilities are in your greatly in favor of you not getting a computer infection.

People want to feel safe. They do that by doing stuff that they think gives them control. That is not security. It is a whoopee blanket.

One note, some MT members fight security paranoia and overkill for years. Some other MT members learned their lesson. I can see some progress.

 

[blackice]

Paranoia is emotion-based and completely irrational. Computer security decisions are largely made based upon emotions, and not reality. That is why most security software marketing targets peoples' fear of the unknown.

To answer your questions, really paranoid people are not behaving rationally. They do not need to be paranoid. They are being ruled by their emotions instead of reason.

Reason looks at reality and data. The real world data proves that systems are not being infected left and right. This is despite the never ending daily news reports of the next latest greatest most dangerous malware and data breach. The reason your system probably has never been infected is because probabilities are in your greatly in favor of you not getting a computer infection.

People want to feel safe. They do that by doing stuff that they think gives them control. That is not security. It is a whoopee blanket.

I agree with this. I’ve become much less paranoid the more time I spend here. For the record I use WD and try to browse sensibly, and not install anything I don’t really need.

 

[danb]

People do not wear their seatbelt while driving because they actually believe they are going to get into a wreck. The odds of them getting into a wreck are slim and none. They wear their seatbelt because it is a reasonable and relatively friction-less security precaution.

Wearing a seatbelt certainly makes some people feel safe, but the ability of a security product to make people feel safe does not in any way determine the efficacy of the security product… these two things are not mutually exclusive.

If people are engaging in risky behavior and do not feel safe, they probably do not feel safe because they have not taken adequate security precautions, and as a result are actually not safe.

It is always a balance between security and usability, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with following appropriate security precautions and enjoying the added benefit of a little peace of mind.

 

[Andy Ful]

The problem is when the security paranoia does not get lower with increasing knowledge about malware, and adding more security.

 

[danb]

I am speaking in general about the 99.9% + of users who have absolutely no interest in becoming knowledgeable in regards to cybersecurity. You are speaking of a subset of a subset (the most paranoid of MT users) that go overboard, but these new security enthusiasts will figure out over time what config works best for them. Think about when you were new to cybersecurity... you wanted to try each and every product as well. And that is a good thing because it helps you find what works best for you. And hopefully seasoned security enthusiasts will quit recommending configs that are significantly less robust and effective while these new security enthusiasts figure out what works best for them.

 

[Ink]

Scanning with WD feels like I'm torturing my PC

What storage type do you have; SSD or HDD?

A quick scan generally takes less than 3 minutes.

Spoiler: Image_1

If you are running Windows on a batter-powered device, you can change the Power Plan to High Performance.

Spoiler: Image_2

 

[SeriousHoax]

What storage type do you have; SSD or HDD?

A quick scan generally takes less than 3 minutes.
View attachment 235928

If you are running Windows on a batter-powered device, you can change the Power Plan to High Performance.
View attachment 235929

Scanning speed isn't slow for me, instead it's quite fast. But very high CPU usage and high disk usage causes issue while scanning. I don't scan my PC though unless it's required for some reason, so not a problem but Microsoft should optimized it better. There's no way to pause scans too which can be irritating depending on the situation.

 

[Andy Ful]

@danb,
It seems that we think the same, but we are using different words to express it.
Most people who try different security solutions are not paranoid. Even the knowledgeable people who use several layers of security (for example WD + SRP + Applocker + Application Control + WD Sandbox + Edge with Application Guard + several Windows Policies...) are usually not paranoid about security.
The key to security paranoia is fear. If this fear is still with the user, even if he/she has more knowledge and more security around, then this is probably a security paranoia case.

 

[Andy Ful]

WD (and any good free AV) can be quite good protection in the home environment for people who apply some safe habits and learn something about phishing methods. For example, the below simple precautions will stop about 90% cyber attacks (even most sophisticated):
Wait one day, before opening an email attachment or following the URL from email.
Wait one day, before opening something from your friend's flash drive.

I prefer simple security + safe habits, just I like to wear according to the weather and season of the year. For many MT members, using the complex security all the time is like wearing the fur coat both in summer and winter.

 

[danb]

@danb,
It seems that we think the same, but we are using different words to express it.
Most people who try different security solutions are not paranoid. Even the knowledgeable people who use several layers of security (for example WD + SRP + Applocker + Application Control + WD Sandbox + Edge with Application Guard + several Windows Policies...) are usually not paranoid about security.
The key to security paranoia is fear. If this fear is still with the user, even if he/she has more knowledge and more security around, then this is probably a security paranoia case.

So how do you cure security paranoia and the associated fear?

 

[JohnR]

I admit having suffered a perhaps warranted (at the time) fear in the days of using XP and found it difficult to adjust when I moved to Linux, getting my head around fact that the system itself was taking care of the security and didn't need the additional software I was so used to adding.
Having recently reverted to Win 10 the fear hasn't yet returned and although I have added a few small items, my preference now is add software designed to tweak/optimise 10's inbuilt security settings, some of which should seemingly have already been set as the default.
Defender with CD scores well enough in testing that I trust it be enough (for me), is hassle free, doesn't nag and nor does it contain half a dozen other modules that I don't need. Minute variations in % shown in AV tests are perhaps important to some, but nothing gives a 100% guarantee.

O/T, but past issues I have had with Win were no doubt by and large of my own making, due in no small part too some or all of the following.

Cleaning the registry will often return to bite you on the backside at some stage.
Too many combinations of software's can cause update problems, as MS cant allow for every change and variation made.
Uninstallers always leave something behind and removing it manually may cause a problem at some point.
Optimisers are a waste of both time and money, good chance of breaking something, but your left with little idea as too what.
Don't fix what ain't broke and only install software you really need.
People who break Linux blame themselves, people who break Win blame MS.

 

[Andy Ful]

So how do you cure security paranoia and the associated fear?

I am not an expert in security paranoia and no one asked me for help, so far. I can only recognize an overkill setup and suggest to avoid relying on fear too much, in security matters.

Edit.
Learning about security can usually remove some fear, so learning can be a possible cure for it, but probably not for paranoia.

 

[danb]

I am not an expert in security paranoia and no one asked me for help, so far. I can only recognize an overkill setup and suggest to avoid relying on fear too much, in security matters.

Edit.
Learning about security can usually remove some fear, so learning can be a possible cure for it, but probably not for paranoia.

It seemed to me that everyone was blaming security paranoia, and you know me, I am not a fan of people pointing out a problem without suggesting a potential solution.

My truck has many different security layers, but I have absolutely no interest in how the various layers work. I just want to get in, put on my seatbelt and go. My brother is a car guy (true story, service manager at Audi). When he starts any car, the first thing he does is check all of the lights and safety indicators. If there is a risk of any kind, he will put the car in park and shut it off... as I was saying, this is an absolutely true story. How many MT readers have done that? How many car guys care about cybersecurity?

99.9%+ of all people just want to sure that their computer is protected and they are only traumatized when their security fails to do so.

 

[Andy Ful]

...
99.9%+ of all people just want to sure that their computer is protected and they are only traumatized when their security fails to do so.

I am not sure about the 99.9%, but generally, I think the same.
People on MT use the term "paranoid setup" or "don't be paranoid" similarly to your friend who might say to you "don't be stupid". They do not think that someone is really paranoid about security.

 

[Fuzzy_Bunny]

I believe browser addons are more important than AV itself. Good addons block phishing/malware sites before you get connected to it.

Windows Defender + ublock origin + trafficlight + windows defender browser protection + privacy badger is what i use and what i installed to my parents and friends and they don't have any problems at all.

 

[oldschool]

@Andy Ful @danb

One of our "famous" YouTube malware testers uses the tagline "Stay informed and stay secure."

Mine is "Stay safe, not paranoid!" I prefer safety advice with a bit of humor!

 

[Andy Ful]

I believe browser addons are more important than AV itself. Good addons block phishing/malware sites before you get connected to it.

Windows Defender + ublock origin + trafficlight + windows defender browser protection + privacy badger is what i use and what i installed to my parents and friends and they don't have any problems at all.

90% of malicious URLs are dead after one day and most of them are "protected" by your extensions as dead. Anyway, 10% is used for several days, so one has more chances to follow them. These extensions are useful, just as the AV signatures for malware, but nothing more.
Anyway, such protection is above average, so the chances of infection are small.

 

[Local Host]

I believe browser addons are more important than AV itself. Good addons block phishing/malware sites before you get connected to it.

Windows Defender + ublock origin + trafficlight + windows defender browser protection + privacy badger is what i use and what i installed to my parents and friends and they don't have any problems at all.

If you need extensions to remain protected from phishing sites, you already lacking education.

Same applies to falling for e-mail scams and malware, they easy to avoid and you should notice a mile away something is wrong. People fall for basic malware, most of the times written in poor english (not even your native language).

Like this,


Is pretty obvious to me is a fake e-mail, but the majorly of users are going to click that link and get their accounts hijacked due to lack of education.

Honestly assuming I even wanted to believe this e-mail, I wouldn't never click nor open any attachment on it, I would go directly to the official PayPal website and makes any changes there.